CHESTER HAS MOVED!: More articles about the aerial battlespace . . .

Saturday, November 13, 2004

More articles about the aerial battlespace . . .

. . . and the lethality of successfully networked intel and firing nodes. Both are Bing West's journal entries -- the links may look the same but they are different. The Watchdogs of Fallujah - Why Marines must fight%u2014and kill%u2014here. By Bing West The Watchdogs of Fallujah - Why Marines must fight%u2014and kill%u2014here. By Bing West

10 Comments:

Blogger M said...

4 helicopters down. I keep thinking these insurgents are trying to create a Blackhawk Down scenerio. It would be great PR for the terrorists.

November 13, 2004 at 6:57 AM  
Blogger Bacelic said...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20041113/wl_nm/iraq_queens_dc&cid=574&ncid=1480

US officer says full control of southern districts expected by Tuesday, to be followed up by clean-up operations.

http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/journalgazette/news/nation/10173699.htm

U.S. general says so far at least 22 servicemembers KIA, more than 170 seriously wounded and 490 have suffered light wounds.

November 13, 2004 at 7:39 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I believe a huge mistake has been made in Mosul.

Apparently, forces from Mosul were shifted to Fallujah. As a result, insurgent poured into Mosul and took over a half-dozen police stations and wrecked the tense balance that had prevailed in that city.

This is a big mistake and I believe somebody needs to be fired for it. Who is that person? Is this an Abazaid decision or a Metz-level decision?

November 13, 2004 at 7:42 AM  
Blogger The Underground News said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

November 13, 2004 at 9:38 AM  
Blogger The Underground News said...

Correction,
1st Battalion,5th INF. was sent also

November 13, 2004 at 9:42 AM  
Blogger USMC_Vet said...

On one hand, I agree with you, Bacelic.

On the other hand, what were the options? Do you (we) know really?

If they had not come from Mosul, then they would have had to come from elsewhere. If they would not have come from elsewhere, then the force into Fallujah would have been possibly undersized for the task.

We cannot go screaming for heads to roll every time the enemy makes an advance or successfully attacks. It was a simple and intelligent move by the enemy of the basic 'Hit 'em where they ain't' school of thaught. If were were in Mosul, but not present elsewhere, then 'elsewhere' would have become today's Mosul.

That does not mean we should not constructively criticize or analyze. Nor does it mean that commanders are immune from pink slips.

But let's take a breath first before pounding the pulpit.

Waging warfare is a collection of calculated risks, decisions based upon those calculations and actions taken as a result. Let's not go striking the fear of God and career into those performing such calculations, or we will see a very passive decision making result that will spell defeat (but ensure careers?).

None of us here have enough information regarding specific unit employment/availability or specific enemy strengths and/or specific positions to suggest any alternatives beyond conjecture.

The pajamahideen lack the on the ground real-time intelligence information to do this. Neither does the 'official' press, but they will never concede as much (neither to the public or -more importantly- to themselves).

Take a breath first and give them the command freedom to adjust to the shifting battlespace before we call for their heads.

November 13, 2004 at 10:19 AM  
Blogger USMC_Vet said...

CORRECTION:

Sorry Bacelic.

I was addressing MR. ANONYMOUS and his thoughts on Mosul.

Apologies & regards.

November 13, 2004 at 10:22 AM  
Blogger Bacelic said...

I did not make the comment you are referring to, check it. However, I do believe the top brass have been saying they have enough troops for the job, most probably as a result of political considerations (presidential elections, speculations about the draft etc..)

Now we see American troops running around the country putting out the fires, insurgents dispersing the police force in Mosul, as well as some smaller towns, and practically taking over third largest city in Iraq, while the resistance in Fallujah still looks far from being decisevely broken.

The rebs are going to have to be blasted out of existence, room by room, house by house. Driving around the city in tanks and armored vehicles won`t cut it. The big problem are the civilians, restricting the ROE. The military should have set up facilities for a large number of refugees, warned the civilians to leave the city, well in advance, and then have a free-fire zone. This way, we see insurgents posing as innocent civilians, than supplying themselves from some hidden cache and shooting the marines in the back. And this thing about not letting Iraqis of military age exit this hellish city is absurd. All who want to go should be allowed to do so or all males of military age should be detained (which would be a dumb thing to do). I think many of the civilians are "cracking up" under constant bombardment and taking up arms out of sheer frustration and desperation, seeing their city destroyed and their friends and family members killed and injured.

Imagine just sitting and getting clobbered, listening to constant shelling and bombing. You get angry. Someone is guilty for all this! Someone should pay! And who should pay? Zarqawi? I don`t give a damn about Zarqawi, or if he really exists at all! All I know it is not Zarqawi dropping bombs on me. Oh, wait I know who it is! The evil Americans who came to destroy us! Now let me take my AK and sing "Stairway to heaven" or "72 virgins on wall" for me.

I am afraid this is the way it might be. This way the real masterminds are getting away, while the locals who get caught up in the emotion of all this end up as cheap cannon fodder for the insurgency. In the end we could see thousands of civilians killed, the city destroyed and insurgency stronger than ever.

Big mistakes have been made in Iraq, political as well as military and yes, SOMEONE MUST PAY!

November 13, 2004 at 11:13 AM  
Blogger Bacelic said...

No problem, Vet.

November 13, 2004 at 11:14 AM  
Blogger USMC_Vet said...

"This way the real masterminds are getting away, while the locals who get caught up in the emotion of all this end up as cheap cannon fodder for the insurgency. In the end we could see thousands of civilians killed, the city destroyed and insurgency stronger than ever.

Big mistakes have been made in Iraq, political as well as military and yes, SOMEONE MUST PAY!"

I guess I just respectfully disagree.

Yes mistakes have been made. But it's a war for God's sake.

We have allowed ourselves to expect near perfection from our servicemen, from top to bottom. We assume that our intelligence services are all-knowing or close to it. We watch laser and video guided munitions home in on target with precision.

At the end of the day, it is men making life and death decisions. Life AND death. Most often they make the right ones. But when they do not, we cannot scream out for their heads on a platter. They will, as a result, commit the cardinal sin of operations: Indecision.

Indecision in this battlespace results in dead Americans doing nothing, their leaders too afraid to make the 'wrong' decision.

Your blanket demands that SOMEONE MUST PAY serve only to corner battlefield commanders into making false-choice Life and Life decisions, too afraid to lose and therefor too afraid to win.

If a military commander has made a gravely poor judgement call, his career will duely reflect. We are not talking about political appointees (former CIA Director Tenet comes to mind). We are talking about career military leaders with their eyes on the horizon and their ears to the ground.

I am finding it difficult to clearly express what I mean. I think I have failed, so I will just cut it short until the words come to mind.

Take a breath my friend and let them lead without looking over their shoulder at you and I criticizing every move and calling for some public scarifice when things go imperfectly.

Unitl then,

November 13, 2004 at 5:05 PM  

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